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Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:18 pm
by General Apathy
Poll: Clinton has 9-point lead over Trump
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/300423-poll-clinton-has-9-point-lead-over-trump

But the odds and the poll numbers don't necessarily mean what they seem to, nor do they guarantee any outcome. Based on the spread of electoral college votes and the likelihood of either candidate winning the states in question, I don't see where Trump has a chance in hell RIGHT NOW.

Which, though very highly unlikely, could change. But if not Clinton already has a lock on it, making the odds makers off in their assessment.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:42 pm
by Macunaima nli
General Apathy wrote:The fact the DoJ was in the tank and the director of the FBI chose to not prosecute despite their being overwhelming evidence they should does not mean she did not do anything illegal.


Let me break it down for YOU, JJ: in western jurisprudence, one dosn't have to prove one's innocense? one's accusers have to prove one's guilt. The DoJ and the FBI decided that there wasn't any evidence of Clinton's committing a crime.

She is thus INNOCENT under the law. And that is really fucking clear. It's amazing that someone who blathers on and on about the constitution and rights can't grasp this simple point.

It means politics has infected the DoJ.


Ahn, I see. It's poolitical when the DoJ doesn't turn in the result you want. Jeez, I wish I'd known about that back in Reagan and Bush's administrations! :D

The problem is, there is no need to demonstrate intent in subpara (f) of the espionage act, which I've previously provided more than once.


No doubt, but one is required to prove gross negligence, which also wasn't proven, was it? Nor has it been proven that she stole or removed sensitive documents covered by the Act, has it?

It's a toss up, also, whether an Act written in 1917, which is one of the most controversial in american jurisprudence, can even really be used to deal with the internet era.

I mean, I'm all ears here, JJ. Where's the beef?

AND you are forgetting about her perjury.


No I am not. I flat out talked about the Clinton's problems with that above and why the Republicans use it.

AND it appears you STILL don't have links to support your previously shoveled shit.


I have posted tons of links regarding this. I reccomend John Stewart's bit, personally.

Which is more than can be said for the links you promised regarding why glonbal warming is a hoax. You've never bothered to provide anyone with those and now, indeed, try to weasel your way out of discussions about it.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:49 pm
by Macunaima nli
Here's a nice bit by the L.A. Times:

In the end, Comey, a deputy attorney general under President George W. Bush, said Clinton’s careless conduct fell short of a crime because there was no evidence of “clearly intentional and willful mishandling” of classified information and no sign of “disloyalty” or an effort to “obstruct justice.”

“In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts,” Comey said.

The Espionage Act says it is a crime to improperly share or lose any document, writing or other military information through gross negligence. But prosecutors said they were unaware of any convictions based on gross negligence alone.


Again, it wasn't brought to trial because there simply wasn't the precedent to do so.

But it is interesting to note, following that article, that other people who HAVE willfully and unlawfully abstracted or stolen documents, including folks like General Peatreus, got misdemeanors and have served no prison time. So let's say everything were true and there were precednts for concluding Clinton was guilty of gross incompetence. That's a misdemeanor, JJ. It's not going to get her jail time and it doesn't preclude her serving as president.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:53 pm
by Macunaima nli
And it's funny: for a decision that's supposedly "political", plenty of non-aligned legal scholars agree with it -- different than what Trump alleges:

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/we-fact ... d-a-crime/

# 1 American University Law Professor Stephen Vladeck who also penned an opinion piece in The New York Times which said her conduct might have been careless but was not criminal. He writes:

In Secretary Clinton’s case, then, the fact that some of the emails contained information that might be classified today does nothing to prove that the information was classified (and was known by her to be classified) at the time it was discussed over unsecured networks.


#2 Former federal prosecutor Anne Tompkins (who also prosecuted David Petraeus), she wrote “The key element that distinguishes Secretary Clinton’s email retention practices from Petraeus’ sharing of classified information is that Petraeus knowingly engaged in unlawful conduct, and that was the basis of his criminal liability.”

#3 LawNewz.com founder, Dan Abrams, also believes based on what we know today, Clinton did not commit a crime. “The reality as I see it is one that won’t entirely satisfy either side — that based on what we know today, she likely did violate government procedures and rules, but not the law,” Abrams said.

# 4 Loyola Law Professor Laurie L. Levenson who wrote in The National Law Journal that “[p]olitics aside, it is difficult to find prior cases where the unwise handling of classified information led to a federal indictment. For the last 20 years, the federal statutes have been used when there were intentional unauthorized disclosures.”

Despite what Mr. Trump reads and sees on television, legal experts are clearly very divided on whether Clinton committed a crime. The FBI investigation is reportedly in its final stage. Agents will likely turn their findings over to Attorney General Loretta Lynch. Ultimately, it will be Lynch who decides if charges against Clinton, or any of her aides are, in fact, warranted.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:03 pm
by rebelyell2006
I don't have to read every single word of your posts to know you will post useless shit, General Apathy. You are a living, breathing representation of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:14 pm
by Ditto Tango 2 3
General Apathy wrote:As for Trump, I don't care what other sleaze comes out on him. I haven't defended him, excused him, supported him and won't 'vote for him. If there is bad shit on him, it should come out as well.


Except for quoting just about every piece of BS flying out of Trump camp, no, I'm not defending him.

JJ, buddy, you are sounding JUST LIKE TRUMP and are being dishonest about it.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:27 pm
by Macunaima nli
So, let me get this straight:

According to GA, Hillary should go to jail for committing an act that few American legal scholars find illegal and which, even if it were illegal, would get her a misdemeanor, at best. This in spite of absolutely ZERO case laws, in the hundred years since the Espionage Act was written, treating incompetence in this fashion.

Meanwhile, Russia's propaganda mouthpiece, Sputnik, plagarizes a Newsweek journalist to put his words in Hillary's mouth, making her look guilty for Benghazi. The propaganda attempt is so transparent that it's quickly called out and Sputnik removes it from its site. No source in the west takes it up but, unaccountably, Donald Trump is quoting this article as god's own truth a while later at his rally.

At the very best, this is Trump repeating Russian propaganda to the detriment of an American politician. At worst, his campaign seems to have a direct line to information being handed out by Putin's government and absolutely no apparent ability to bullshit check these.

The 1917 Espionage Act was written to protect the U.S. from foreign enemies. I know which of the two scenarios outlined above seem to me to be much more of a threat to the U.S.' interests.

John Parus apparently doesn't, which is odd, given that he works for a major defense contractor.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:14 am
by kyotebue2
Real Clear Politics live betting odds, Clinton 86 Trump 14.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:28 am
by General Apathy
I don't have time for a detailed response tonight, but you've been served several large slices of typical Mac bullshir - straw men attacks, argument against things I never stated, setting up false trails, distractions, rabbit hole and nonsense.

I'll respond in detail tomorrow. Meanwhile Mac is simply lying about a number of things, including links he supposedly provided, and my position, previously posted in response to him WRT global warming.

He has no links to prove his shit. A link to a humor video hardly qualifies as proof of what I've previously posted. Mac insists otherwise.

Like I said, simply shoveling his Brazilian sewer shit again.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:35 am
by Macunaima nli
Whenever you are ready to own up to your view that global warming isn't being caused by humans, John, I am ready to debate.