So this EU thing

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Re: So this EU thing

Postby Germy Bugger » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:39 pm

pete284 wrote:I want out of this European Experiment. UK currently sends EU 11,500 euros per person living in the UK. I say come out, stop all benefits and give every adult in the UK 11,500 Euros each tax free

There is absolutely no chance that if we came out of the EU the government would spend the money currently given to the EU on us.
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Re: So this EU thing

Postby Levied Troop » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:49 pm

Citizen Sade wrote:
Monkeyborg wrote:Great post LT.:beer:

Why? Nobody's talking about leaving people to starve on the street. Instead, the OP is suggesting a citizen's income, funded by what we currently contribute to the EU, in place of the benefits currently paid. The number he mentions is rather more than the current basic state pension, by the way.

For the record, I'm not a supporter of the citizen's income.


I'm not sure that's what the OP said, not sure why you'd not just put the EU funds straight back into the NHS/Social Housing etc unless you were wanting to reduce the benefits bill.

But assuming you're right, lets just check that generous £11,500. Per annum that doesn't look like it would keep a single person in a mortgage by itself, nor pay for care or assistance in the event of disability or illness and I doubt you'd want to raise a family on it - so you still have the problem that in the event of bad luck or fecklessness some of your citizens are going to be helpless. It might take them longer to starve I suppose.

But it's not £11,500, unless my maths are out (which they could be - worth checking :) ).
The population of the UK aged over 15 is 54 million. Giving them each £11,500 would cost £621 billion.

The exact cost of EU membership is a little imprecise, like all of these things it depends where you start from, but let's take Nigel Farrage's estimate of £20 Billion per annum that he quoted in the debate with Nick Clegg. Sounds a lot but giving 54 million people a share of that looks like £370 pa.

But it's not £20 billion because Nigel forgot that money comes from the EU into the UK in the form of grants, rebates etc to the tune of £8 billion. So the amount of money available to play with is £12 billion, or £222 per annum for your Citizen's Income. Don't spend it all at once.

I checked the homepage for the Citizen's Income to see what they suggested as a figure. Couldn't see one on a quick trawl through but their FAQ produced this gem:
"A FULL Citizen's Income (FCI) is defined as 'enough to live on'. If everyone were to receive a FCI, it would cost so much to pay for it that it is unlikely to gain political or public support. "

I picked the UK population over 15, but let's not forget the kiddies. The total population of the UK is 65 million, giving them all £11,500 would cost in excess of £747,000,000,000.

Somebody check my figures, can't believe the OP was that far out :shock:


Edit: More fun with figures. £12bn is 0.56% of Britain's GDP (2014 figures). For this we get more useful influence than Trident affords us, if we cared to use it. The influence that is. Not Trident.
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Re: So this EU thing

Postby Duff » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:50 am

Skipp wrote:Longest period of peace in Europe?



Hang on, there's been peace in Europe for the last 70 years, the EU has only been around for 22 years, why is it getting all of the credit? As for bearing risk and facing common problems, pre Maastricht Europe was quite capable of doing that already.
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Re: So this EU thing

Postby Passer by » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:50 am

Duff wrote:
Skipp wrote:Longest period of peace in Europe?



Hang on, there's been peace in Europe for the last 70 years, the EU has only been around for 22 years, why is it getting all of the credit? As for bearing risk and facing common problems, pre Maastricht Europe was quite capable of doing that already.


While I agree with your sentiments, I think the poor gits in former Yugoslavia will disagree with your 70 year time line ;)
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Re: So this EU thing

Postby Bronshtein » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:15 am

Anyone fancy trawling through the history of the European Coal and Steel Community (1951) to the present?
Thought not.
EEC was what we joined in the 70s.
All predecessors and part of the EU
Former Yugoslavia wasn't part of any of them - a very good advert for being part of the EU (and predecessor organisations), whose members haven't fought each other since WWII
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Re: So this EU thing

Postby Juuso » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:59 am

Skipp wrote:Longest period of peace in Europe?

Great way to bear risk across the continent, and to face common problems?

Yeah, let's fuck it off...



The problem with EU and its politics is that so many of the member countries are NATO members as well, and they've been in more or less constant readiness / state of war ever since Saddam's Irak collapsed. True, they don't wage the war in Europe, unless you count the anti-terrorist operations as such (I would). So many member countries, like Britain, France etc. have a dual role. If anything, it could be argued that the actions of these NATO countries are making it damn sure there will be a long period of unrest/terrorism/war in the EU for years to come, maybe even permanently (until something breaks)? EU as such has very little say in all this, it's a political/economic alliance, and not a military one. Which is a bit of problem, for the rest of EU members who are not in NATO.

I am not sure how you can claim it's specifically EU that's been preserving the peace in Europe? Are really suggesting that the European nations would be at each others throats without it? Really?
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Re: So this EU thing

Postby Clayface » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:11 am

The only thing preventing us invading Finland and annexing your attractive blondes is your EU membership. Cling to it as a beacon of safety and a guarantee of our brotherhood, just as you would your neutral status in 1939.
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Re: So this EU thing

Postby SpaceCudet » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:30 am

I thought it was the Eurovision Song Contest that prevented wars?
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Re: So this EU thing

Postby Juuso » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:45 am

Sane Max wrote:The only thing preventing us invading Finland and annexing your attractive blondes is your EU membership. Cling to it as a beacon of safety and a guarantee of our brotherhood, just as you would your neutral status in 1939.


Lol sure, but honestly the pretty blondes are in Sweden.
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Re: So this EU thing

Postby freakinacage » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:51 am

He's right. All the Fins I know have dark hair or dye it to distance themselves from the Swedes!
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