RIP Tony Benn

[Duff]

I liked him as a man. He had the courage of his convictions.

Probably one of the last honest(ish) politicians. The buggers we've got now are all style and no substance.

That's the same horseshit people have been saying since the fucking neo-lithic. "These tribal leaders we have now aren't a patch on the ones from my fathers time." It was bollocks then and it's bollocks now.

More true now, though.

No, it isn't. Modern Labour MPs represent where the average left of centre voter is. Old grognards like you (and to a certain degree myself) are a tiny minority of the voting public now. Student Unions aren't filled with Marx quoting socialists anymore. Manufacturing isn't full of shop stewards uniting the workforce (more's the pity). If parliament was full of more Tony Benns they would be completely unrepresentative of the population. You can pine for it all you like, but the world has moved on without you.

And the likes of Benn, Foot and Hattersley were always a minority of politicians. There are just as many conviction MPs today as there ever were, there just weren't many of them to start with.

[Ace From Outer Space]

And the likes of Benn, Foot and Hattersley were always a minority of politicians. There are just as many conviction MPs today as there ever were, there just weren't many of them to start with.

True enough Duff. I also think, however, that the different election systems the parties use for selecting MP's play a role in weeding out the really committed world changers. Working for a social services department I get to see politicians of all hues and all levels. Very few of the politicos I've worked with are committed to making a difference. They only care about being re-elected and playing politics.

The only time many of us ever get to see our local councillors or MP's is when it's election time and they all turn up at your doorstep.

[An Absent Humphrey]

Yeah, more or less true enough.
A turning point for me was a comment I once heard about Tony Blair. Someone commented that he was the best Prime Minister the UK had ever had not because of his policies, but because he 'knew how to use the media'.
That's a pretty sad, and damning, indictment - that knowing how to use the media is more important than the practice of being a politician.
Of course, one could argue that in the modern environment being able to use and manipulate (and it was those negative aspects that were being refered to), and know how the media works is an intrinsic part of being a modern politician.
But I still struggle to see that as a positive.
Oh well.

[Lem23]

And the likes of Benn, Foot and Hattersley were always a minority of politicians. There are just as many conviction MPs today as there ever were, there just weren't many of them to start with.

Wait, Roy Hattersley was a leftist now? The Hattersley who helped purge Militant? The Hattersley who called the people who voted for Foot "an electorate deranged by fear?" The Hatterely who writes a column for the fucking Daily Mail? Hatterlsey was a centrist/centre-rightist within the labour party, not a leftist, not by a long shot.

[Roger Theloger]

Hitler knew how to use the media.... he was dedicated to his political beliefs.

I'd be happy with politicians half as dedicated if it meant we could avoid another Hitler.

[Skipp]

And the likes of Benn, Foot and Hattersley were always a minority of politicians. There are just as many conviction MPs today as there ever were, there just weren't many of them to start with.

Wait, Roy Hattersley was a leftist now? The Hattersley who helped purge Militant? The Hattersley who called the people who voted for Foot "an electorate deranged by fear?" The Hatterely who writes a column for the fucking Daily Mail? Hatterlsey was a centrist/centre-rightist within the labour party, not a leftist, not by a long shot.

perhaps people with different views can hold convictions?

[Lem23]

And the likes of Benn, Foot and Hattersley were always a minority of politicians. There are just as many conviction MPs today as there ever were, there just weren't many of them to start with.

Wait, Roy Hattersley was a leftist now? The Hattersley who helped purge Militant? The Hattersley who called the people who voted for Foot "an electorate deranged by fear?" The Hatterely who writes a column for the fucking Daily Mail? Hatterlsey was a centrist/centre-rightist within the labour party, not a leftist, not by a long shot.

perhaps people with different views can hold convictions?

Roy Hattersley certainly couldn't...

[Duff]

And the likes of Benn, Foot and Hattersley were always a minority of politicians. There are just as many conviction MPs today as there ever were, there just weren't many of them to start with.

Wait, Roy Hattersley was a leftist now?

No, he a centre left, but he was a conviction politician.

[Lem23]

Only if you count the conviction that he was all in it for himself.

[Duff]

Only if you count the conviction that he was all in it for himself.

You're talking out of your arse.