Michael Gove decides to teach all British children himself..

[Bronshtein]

God this is awful - I'm agreeing with people - I must report for re-education camp at once.

McFonz - Agree we shouldn't go back to the old system of a one shot 11+ and effectively bin the ones who don't get to Grammar school.

I think Grammar schools would offer an opportunity for all(and not just the rich)who could benefit from an academically based education similar to Public schools, but the vocational path should not be regarded as a lesser, poorly funded option as the old Secondary Moderns tended to be.

There should be many more opportunities for those who could benefit from an academic slant to education to join Grammar schools at later stages than 11. Teaching standards, funding and opportunities in whatever you want to call non Grammars should be just as high as in Grammar schools but the subjects and methodologies should be more geared to the way people who think and learn and aspire differently want to address learning.

Those who just want to piss about can join me in a re-educational facility in the Crimea.

PS I still think Gove is twat as well

[Hermit]

My mum has worked mainly as a specialist tutor for the last decade after many years in the primary school system. She lost faith in it when in her words 'we were told not to teach anymore'. She felt a lot of tools and direction were taken away from teachers and schools in favour of a very streamlined 'fits all' system.

It's sad, isn't it? Good teachers like her tend not to be needed anymore. I'm reminded of what happened to my nephew some years ago when he was 8 years old. He asked one of these "fits all" type teachers a simple question about something he didn't understand, like many 8 year olds tend to do. Instead of being given an answer, or even told to look it up in the library or on the internet. He was given what seemed like a standard response to it, which was: "I'm not qualified to answer that question."

Eh?!

But you're a fucking teacher! You should be fucking qualified!

(which is what I would've said to her )

[mcfonz]

I wanted to be a teacher originally, when I moved back to Norwich. I worked as a teaching assistant for a bit and then my mum and I had a conversation about it. When it came down to it she essentially told me to not bother being a teacher but to look for something more pastoral as she felt I could teach young people more through that than being a teacher.

Says it all. And you know what? I have been at county seminars where schools effectively brag about results or 'getting' results out of 'unschool-shaped children'. One time I had had enough (after one person commented upon one of the kids I work with being incredibly not school shaped) and turned around and told a room of 30-40 education people that I thought the system had lost its way and no longer monitors or grades some of the most important aspects of learning. They no longer value aspects such as social skills, team work, independent thinking and other skills you need on a day to day basis. That is one of the things I admire about the past, schools knew part of their role was to parent the kids to a degree, now that is something that is rejected.

I was in the same class in A-Level classics as a girl who was a straight A student but had the personality of a concrete wall and the common sense of a moth next to a naked flame. You know the weirdest thing? She's now a teacher . . . .

[Hermit]

I think you're doing more good than any teacher could where you are, mate

But I've never heard the phrase "un-school shaped" before. Sounds like a cunt whoever said it to you.

[mcfonz]

The whole bloody lot of them, they were using the term like it was good or something. More depressingly it took an Austrian to put them in their places too, told em to stick their 'looked after child' label up their arses. There are many kids not in the care system that suffer from bereavement, loss, abuse, neglect who suffer the same educationally as a result.

I love what I do - I really mean that, and I know I'm lucky in many ways. I get shit pay but not everyone can do a job they really enjoy. It's taught me not to be scared of anyone or anything - the young folk I work with have more reason and more right to shirk and they don't. So these days I sock it to the social workers too.

[AKULA]

I'm sure Gove would appreciate your input on how to fix our broken system, mcfonz.

Nope, McFonz is too busy working with the FA, giving them the benefit of his years of experience of running a football team.

[aliensurfer]

I've done the first of my teaching qualifications, and it seems these days it's more about making sure the powers that be can tick certain boxes and the amount of paperwork needed for that is staggering, there is also less teaching a subject and more teaching what is needed to pass one exam. I don't agree with exams, could have a really bright student who knows the subject inside out, who may have a mental block with exams or just have a bad day and that's it, you're fucked, you have to re-take them. there should be other ways to gauge how well a student has understood a topic, and lets be honest, how many jobs out there expect you to remember everything and not be able to look it up in a book/online or be shown/helped? Exams are artificial as you do not work like that in the real world.

Also, you would be surprised just how many students we get that have not got basic maths and english skills, ffs they should have the basics understood by the time they go to secondary school, let alone when the leave it, yet colleges are having to pick up where schools have just let these students slip through the net, and the numbers are growing. Also, tutors who specialise in their subject are now expected to have to teach said students on their course maths and english as well. we can't make the student go do an entry level maths and english course first before admitting them onto a mainstream course, not sure why, probably to do with bums on seats and funding, which is the most important thing these days, along with making sure all the relevant boxes can be ticked by Ofsted.

[AKULA]

I don't agree with exams, could have a really bright student who knows the subject inside out, who may have a mental block with exams or just have a bad day and that's it, you're fucked, you have to re-take them. there should be other ways to gauge how well a student has understood a topic, and lets be honest, how many jobs out there expect you to remember everything and not be able to look it up in a book/online or be shown/helped? Exams are artificial as you do not work like that in the real world.

Exams are designed to test your knowledge and understanding of a subject, and do so in a time-pressured environment....actually a useful skill in the real world. Some exams do allow for a reference book to be taken into the room. If you have a "bad day" you can retake them...not the end of the world.

Coursework can be googled/wiki'ed/bought off the Internet, or even drafted by the teacher. Not saying everyone does it by any means, but unfortunately it now has that perception with many employers.

[Duff]

Coursework can be googled/wiki'ed/bought off the Internet, or even drafted by the teacher. Not saying everyone does it by any means, but unfortunately it now has that perception with many employers.

Yep. The move towards part of your grade coming from coursework in the 80s was great and long overdue, but modern information access has made it impossible to base scores on anymore.

[mcfonz]

Exams are designed to test your knowledge and understanding of a subject, and do so in a time-pressured environment....

In most instances they fail then. The people who got the best grades in my classes at school were those that were most like computers in terms of memory. Exams do not test your knowledge or understanding of a subject. The best ways to get A* is to regurgitate word for word, other people's views you have memorised from text books.

I took notes for GCSE History to revise from, I loved history. There was one hot chick in our school, she asked me, yes me, to borrow my notes as she had 'lost' hers. She hadn't lost them, she hadn't been bothered to take them and do the revision. Still she was hot, and what 15/16 year old boy isn't going to lend her the notes? She got a grade better than me, but didn't have the interest, passion or knowledge of the subject that I had. She had simply been able to memorise the information and regurgitate it at will where as I probably just got all stressed and wordy over it.

. . . . . actually a useful skill in the real world. Some exams do allow for a reference book to be taken into the room. If you have a "bad day" you can retake them...not the end of the world.

In most cases that requires you to retake an entire year of education. That is a massive blow as you don't get free funding for education post 18 although there is a little fudging around the edges these days. Not to mention I took a gap year and the tuition fees went up in between whiles. Yes, not the end of the world but it could, and can close down avenues.

Coursework can be googled/wiki'ed/bought off the Internet, or even drafted by the teacher. Not saying everyone does it by any means, but unfortunately it now has that perception with many employers.

Because it isn't properly regulated. Science coursework can be lab based and invigilated like an exam, but just in a less pressured way. Again, GCSE Physics, we did an experiment for coursework with our teacher supervising - it's down to the individual teachers and the people who mark the coursework externally.

The overall point isn't that exams and coursework don't work, it's just that in their current guise they fail. Scott is right, rather than being taught the length and breadth of a subject anymore, young people are being taught what passes their exams. You don't get a test of knowledge and understanding, you get a test of what they have been able to memorise.

To memorise things you don't need to be able to understand them, just be able to quote them on demand.

It's why maths remains one of the best exam examples. You have a sum, the answer and any workings.

Having been through Uni, I wouldn't trust the grading system on degrees anymore than I would trust a man in a black and white stripey top, a mask and a bag with swag written on it not to burgle my house.