Revolution in Ukraine

[Bronshtein]

Nope. You get questions you dont want to answer.

Like I said before you rule out European press for bias and tell us all that the sources you present are more bias. When were those telephone intercepts? Who made them and who has released them.

For fuck's sake man! Just google it - it's all over the fucking web http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzH5QQa0Hlk
I would assume the GRU

When being objective you simply cannot apply one rule to one side and not the other.

My G*d How many times? I wasn't being objective I was putting a case. I'm not saying I believe all of it - its like a barrister - he puts his client's case - even if he thinks he's guilty as fuck.

Again, where is the evidence of a coup? Did the military storm parliament? Did the protesters defeat the police and storm parliament? Was the president forcably removed?

Yes! That bit is entirely factual.

To me a coup is more akin to what happened in Crimea. Its not one man steadily running out of allies with his own parliament voting no confidence and the police and military refusing to protect him any longer.

I am quite willing to accept one if the evidence is there to be had - and from an objective viewpoint.

I'm not a Ukrainian constitutional expert but my understanding is that according to Article 111 of the Constitution they need to vote to impeach him with a straight majority, establish a commission, receive the report of the commission, if that recommends impeachment then they need a 2/3 majority to proceed to impeachment proceedings. Then they need to hear the case in the Supreme Court and then and only if that court agrees with the charges (Treason or other crime) they proceed to the Vote of the Parliament. They then need a 3/4 majority vote to remove him. Then the emergency president takes over. He/She can't do anything public until there has been a new election. They fell over at about hurdle two - even if you think you can have a legitimate vote with a mob howling outside, storming government offices and gunfights in the streets (which you can't by the way - nothing done under duress is valid). This means that even if they had legally removed him (they didn't) the new President should shut the fuck up until there is a new election. His government is illegitimate at any level of understanding.

I don't need substance, I'm not challenging the legitamacy of the European media and press along with the USA and failing to apply the same logic to your own 'sources'.

So you don't need substance all you need is your own prejudice and the support of a load of idiot press?
I'll back my experience,reading of constitutional law, critical reading of and listening to world news and my ability to reason over unthinking acceptance of mainstream press any day.

[Bronshtein]

+1

You're still a commie cunt. And the Russian Leadership is still worse than the West's Leadership, at the moment, maybe. On that thought- Anyone tallying civilian casualties by government & policy since the Cold War ended? Because at the end of the day, dead people of any nationality could have been living their lives otherwise.

Why, thank you!
(I'm not really - but don't tell anyone on here - I might count as one in the US though. I don't hate the west - I wish the US was more New Deal and less Reagonomics and I wish we weren't being all macho over here and trying to live like John Wayne. But I'd rather be allied to the States than Russia. But telling people that loses you leverage so just our secret huh?)

Somebody must be - might try googling later - not sure of the criteria though - Does Chechnya count? I mean they'd have done that with or without the end of the cold war wouldn't they? Although I guess the Chechens wouldn't have been quite so fucking stupid as to try it with the Sovs. Iraq? Hmmm probably wouldn't have done that. Nor Afghanistan. Sub Saharan Africa? Give up too complicated.

[mcfonz]

Right, back to the media as you seem to think I bother with it much. Which media/press is better to follow and why?

My understanding of the word coup is that of the Oxford English dictionary and the description of what happened by both sides does not match that of a coup. That's why I don't agree with that term for this instance.

Your suggestion is that the uprising/revolution was instigated or only succeeded due to the intervention of the US. Whilst I agree with you that I really dont like meddling and underhand tactics I think you overrate their influence. If you look to the last presidential election as an example it was won by a very tight margin which indicates the country was quite split prior to any of this and again power has been pretty unstable for some time.

This is what I was referencing before.

It wouldn't have needed much of an injection from the US to take an already volatile protest to the next level. Just as in Iraq it didn't take much more than a couple of crates of guns to get the Kurds helping out.

[Roger Theloger]

Hasn't this thread died yet?

Doing fuck all about it posting on here, go and email your MPs and sign some online petitions.

[mcfonz]

Hasn't this thread died yet?

Doing fuck all about it posting on here, go and email your MPs and sign some online petitions.

But our government is shit! Its constantly fingered by the CIA and heavily influenced by the utterly shit, bias and brainwashing media. I'll be arrested and sent to Guantanamo!

P.S. this is not actually my view but I feel a moral o ligation to present it to the masses of brainwashed sheep.