Frothers Unite! UK

Hermit wrote:

Woodwose wrote:I would question the Damned and the Anti-Nowhere League, punk yes, but I certainly wouldn't put them down as a prime example of Goth.

Remember that the goth culture of the 80s was a splinter from punk,

More a blend of punk and the New Romantics, with a generous splash of early 70s Glam, than an offshoot of any single musical movement. It's lack of coherent roots is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to pin down many bands as being "Goth". As a simple rule of thumb, I find the following a largely accurate method for determining a groups Goth sub culture allegiance: are they shit? If yes, then they are Goth, if not then they are not. Using this simple rule we can see that Siouxie & the Banshees are not Goth, while Marillion most definitely are. This is a variation on the Duff Metal Theorem.*

*Duff hates all forms of Heavy Metal. If Duff likes a band or song then it obviously can't be Heavy Metal, because if it was Heavy Metal, Duff would hate it.
That's logic that is, and you can't argue with logic.

THE Bob wrote:

mr tough guy wrote: kinda reminds me of that recent episode of southpark about the Goth Kid becoming Emo

It seems to me that emo is just like goth except that now they let fat kids in.

Fuck off, they always let fat kids in, it was almost compulsory for the girls. Emo just means Goth with even fewer reasons to be depressed.

Duff wrote: As a simple rule of thumb, I find the following a largely accurate method for determining a groups Goth sub culture allegiance: are they shit? If yes, then they are Goth, if not then they are not. Using this simple rule we can see that Siouxie & the Banshees are not Goth, while Marillion most definitely are. This is a variation on the Duff Metal Theorem.*

*Duff hates all forms of Heavy Metal. If Duff likes a band or song then it obviously can't be Heavy Metal, because if it was Heavy Metal, Duff would hate it.
That's logic that is, and you can't argue with logic.

QFT

Dags wrote:

Duff wrote: As a simple rule of thumb, I find the following a largely accurate method for determining a groups Goth sub culture allegiance: are they shit? If yes, then they are Goth, if not then they are not. Using this simple rule we can see that Siouxie & the Banshees are not Goth, while Marillion most definitely are. This is a variation on the Duff Metal Theorem.*

*Duff hates all forms of Heavy Metal. If Duff likes a band or song then it obviously can't be Heavy Metal, because if it was Heavy Metal, Duff would hate it.
That's logic that is, and you can't argue with logic.

QFT

Queens of the Stone Age?

Yeps, good theory Duff.

The Damned, New Rose, 1976, first ever Punk Rock single released, and Vanian has a totally goth look already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTfyUqVqX-0

Grimly Fiendish, 1985 (co-written by The Damned and Ugly Clive of Doctor and the Medics), pure goth, before the rot set in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIpv0fQW4YU

Except Bauhaus weren't shit...

Also note I just turned 30 meaning that I know approximately fuck all from first hand experience!

Andrew May wrote:Except Bauhaus weren't shit...

Indeed, which proves they weren't Goth.

THE Bob wrote:The Damned, New Rose, 1976, first ever Punk Rock single released, and Vanian has a totally goth look already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTfyUqVqX-0

Grimly Fiendish, 1985 (co-written by The Damned and Ugly Clive of Doctor and the Medics), pure goth, before the rot set in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIpv0fQW4YU

Dave always dressed like that, but the way one person dresses that doesn't make a group goth, look at the rest of them:-


More importantly look at the music, you've got Vanian, Scabies and Sensible all pulling in different directions. It's not until Sensible quits after "Strawberries" and Jugg takes his place that the Vanian influence takes center stage. That would from "Phantasmagoria" onwards. That's the Album with Grimly fiendish which is rather too pop for your average Goth, but does feature the camp Hammer style video and album cover. It's about as Goth as the previously mentioned Doctor and the Medics! That was the Damned at their most commercial and Top of the Pops presentable

The sort of thing Goths were into in the early 80's was more like this:-
http://youtu.be/T3UKqdWCKS0

Duff wrote:Using this simple rule we can see that Siouxie & the Banshees are not Goth, while Marillion most definitely are.

Whoah there, fella.
Siouxie and the Banshees certainly didn't start Goth, but they ended up that way.
Marilliion? Agreed, they were shit, but in NO WAY WHATSOEVER were they Goth! They were a poor man's Genesis. Marillion had prog-rock pretensions and let themselves be hijacked by radio-friendly popularity. Shit, yes, but never Goth. Not even close.

What about Killing Joke? They were Goth, but were also good.

New Model Army were another of those hard-to-place bands. They started out all punk, then skirted around Goth, and pinched the (rancid) arse of crusty. I liked them them, though.

Bauhaus weren't Goth because Goth hadn't been declared then. But they were (rightfully) adopted by Goths in hindsight. They were regulars at The Bat Cave club in London, for flip's sake (along with Alien Sex Fiend, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, Specimen, etc).

Here's a good way to wind up a Goth (original 80s Goths, not the 90s Emo reinventiion). When someone says, 'I used to a Goth in the 80s', say, 'oh yeah, I liked Def Leppard as well'.*
You can see the smoke coming out of their ears.


*Hmm...in hindsight, I wonder if you could do the same with Marillion...