Science is fucking brilliant.

[An Absent Humphrey]

I'm reminded of a famous quote by Steven Weinberg - good people will do good and bad people will do bad. But for good people to do bad requires religion.

[freakinacage]

I like that quote

[General Paranoia]

I like that quote

So what religion are you going to blame your bad BF4 scores on?

[aliensurfer]

I like that quote

So what religion are you going to blame your bad BF4 scores on?

The cult of Kev

[freakinacage]

He is a cult..well one letter off

[Duff]

I'm reminded of a famous quote by Steven Weinberg - good people will do good and bad people will do bad. But for good people to do bad requires religion.

I'd add many ideologies to that, particularly utopian ones like Communism, but that is exactly the point which Monty and McFonz were missing with their "Religion is just used as an excuse by nutters" claptrap.

Monty, you asked so here you go:

I came to bring fire to the earth and how I wish it were already kindled! Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division

Matthew 10:34

and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 22:36-38

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace but a sword

Luke 12:49-51

And do you really want to get into the violence promoted and promulgated by the Book of Revelation?
Add the acceptance and condoning of the horrors of the OT and any claim to Jesus being a man of peace is at least questionable. But then I don't think Christianity has much to do with the teachings of Jesus anyway.

Condi, have you stopped to think that you, a person of belief who I would hazard a guess has never experienced non belief, are trying to inform me, and millions of other Atheists who have no belief, that they are all wrong and actually believe in something, they just don't know it?

[THE Killer Bob]

you were wrong about Raglan.

Not content with showing over and over again that you are too stupid to understand what atheist means, now you want to bring up your support for paedophilia on a different thread? You are determined to prove yourself the dumbest cunt who ever posted on Frothers aren't you?

Here's a tip from someone who isn't a piece of shit like you: keep your obnoxious ignorance of a subject on the correct thread. Be wrong and stupid about science on this thread, be vile and stupid about kiddy fiddling on the other thread. Easy!


And to add to all the other attempts to explain I'll try: Atheism is to religion like baldness is to hair. Baldness is an absence of hair, not a type of hair. You can have black or brown or ginger hair but you can't have bald hair. Being bald is by definition not having hair. Being an atheist is not having belief in gods. It is an absence of belief, not a type of belief, that is what the word means. It is so simple that anyone can understand it and to deny it without explaining how bald is a hair colour is an admission of defeat.

[mcfonz]

Ps @ mcfonz - regarding the book of Eli... I may have missed the point of the film (thought it was balletic gunfights, a fit bird, and the bible surviving the apocalypse... But mostly balletic gunslinging in a PA setting) - anyway - elucidate a little for me.

SPOILER ALLERT - BOOK OF ELI:

I raised the Book of Eli because it is a perfect example of what I talk about and what goes on in this world. The book Eli carries is actually blank. But those who are old enough to have been properly educated, who can read understand what power it can hold over those who cannot. Eli protects it because he understands how, in the post apocalyptic world, if it fell into the wrong hands it could be used to return society to a feudal based level of existence with masters, lords, peasants and slaves. (Whether the deliberate or not, it can be seen to reflect upon the Catholic Church once upon a time insisting on the Bible being written in Latin and failing to educate people in being able to read themselves, therefore reducing the writing to them to being as effective as blank pages).

Carnegie is not religious, he cares about nothing apart from power. He wants the book as he knows and remembers that, despite not believing in any of it himself, he can get many more to follow him with it's preaching and with them seeing him as some sort of holy man / prophet / preacher and be that bit more unquestioning.

Historically religion and ruling politics were so intertwined that they were often one and the same. In many places in the world where both have hardly moved on, where very few people have access to education, this remains to be the case. Political leaders understand and can, abuse and take advantage of religion.

[mcfonz]

Firstly, no, you are exactly wrong and so is McFonz (there's a shock).

Exactly - a scientific term for absolute. We're not. It's an opinion - and by the way one which you have not really paid much attention to because you don't want to listen to what we are saying and just want to attack 'religion' further.

Utopian theologies and ideologies inspire people to commit atrocities, the radicalisation of the young in Muslim societies is proof of that.

Radicalise: to make radical or more radical, esp. in politics.

The media uses the term 'radicalise' because it is the simplest term they can feed to the masses. But the truth is far deeper and far more complicated than that. This is where the reference to the Book of Eli comes in - plus my friend who has first hand experience of the 'Muslim societies' you talk of.

[quote="Duff"]I'd add many ideologies to that, particularly utopian ones like Communism, but that is exactly the point which Monty and McFonz were missing with their "Religion is just used as an excuse by nutters" claptrap.[quote]

See above, you are the one that missed making the point - we were responding to direct attacks on religion. I actually alluded to, and was drawing attention to the fact that nutters are nutters whether religious or not. You were also the one that made the claims around religion condoning killing, when what I was pointing out it is not religion, or rather it is not just religion or that without religion it would still happen.

My opinions don't actually differ that much from yours Duff, but where they do, it is due to not being so aggressively against religion. I'm Atheist, I don't follow any particular religion, I don't particularly believe in a God or Gods - I don't really care. But I also respect others for identifying something in religion that they want to conform to or follow. Most are peaceful people.

I do strongly hate that many, including those you allude to throughout your arguments, are in fact examples of the ancient systems of rule who are not really great believers in their 'faith' and simply see it as a way of taking advantage of others.

Essentially it all comes down to power, and the constant line of power cravers doing anything they can to gain it.

[Hastati]

SPOILER ALLERT - BOOK OF Eli
The book Eli carries is actually blank.

Admit it, you haven't actually seen the film.