Frothers Unite! UK

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Bob is the kind of person who gets invested emotionally in things, and for him on an emotional level, trying to make the Nazis win in a game would cause him emotional upset, kind of like he feels he would be validating their historical actions.
Bob on a personal level will not play the Nazis, for HIM he finds it upsetting.

Bob however understands that not everyone is like him, he knows that whilst some people would get off on playing the Nazis, many others are quite capable of playing them and they feel no emotional investment in it.
He understands that whilst it would make him feel like a bad Nazi himself, that others can play the Nazis and not feel this kindred spirit with them.

Bob does not think he is morally superior to anyone who can play the Nazis.


Stevo however plays the Nazis, and the Japanese and the Taliban and even the Junker Insurgents, he plays them as to him they are just a side in a game.
Stevo does not think that Bob judges him some sort of immoral animal for being able to play these sides, because he does not presume to know Bobs reasons for not wanting to play those sides.

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Tim, you very much seem to be saying that people who can't or won't play the bad guys must therefore think you a cunt as you can/will/do.
But nowhere on TWW has anyone said this.
Especially Ivan who has even said he does play the Germans and has written loads of German supplements and stuff for those that do want to play them.
Why this insistence that Ivan is judging you and that he finds you somehow morally repugnant?

It’s worth noting that a couple of Cunts posts are not from the same person.

The biggest cunt wrote:It’s worth noting that a couple of Cunts posts are not from the same person.

Unimportant, they are all JJ/Bill...

Bronshtein wrote:To make up a game, someone is prepared to play US/UK/Brazilian/USSR/Canadian/NZ/Aus/Transjordan/China/South Africa etc but not Axis.

This may or may not imply a criticism of the Axis player's morality.

It may simply be a moral/taste qualm about their own participation in appearing to give support/credence to the values of that side at that time.

Exactly. And the corollary of that is that the other person(s) playing the axis side don't have the same high moral standards. It's a fucking offensive cop out. If they were so morally offended by the "values of that side" then they shouldn't be playing the period, period.

It really is that simple.

If it is a moral criticism of the other player my advice would be don't play each other.

I can't see why you are so angry about someone declaring their moral epiphany about evil bastards in WWII.

By posting publicly about their self-perceived virtue of playing the allies, they are necessarily turning their nose down at not only their friends (or whoever the fuck they play with - I've only ever wargamed with friends or travellers who have contacted me via my old web site and invited them to my house to play with my friends) who play the side the snooty bastard thinks he's too good to play, but at everyone who reads the post.

That's why I'm offended and think them sanctimonious.

If it is a preference, then accommodate it and stop moaning.

Lots of people have preferences over what side they play, but it's rarely because they get the vapours thinking about validating the evils of the Axis and simply can't play them.

If everyone of your acquaintance feels playing Axis is too tainted - pick another period or play multi player solo against a programmed Axis opponent.

Yes, that's exactly my point. LOL Have some of you not played sports in your life (I made it to university level basketball, myself, mind you just freaking barely - I was the shortest forward in the whole OUAA in the early 80s and got like 10 minutes actual court time in 2 years) that you can't get the fucking analogy about refusing to play any other part of a game except the part you like best?

I'm really only making a big deal out of this here because Michael can't seem to understand the above responses here to you. I can communicate at the least on an average enough level that my point should be getting across as to why I think the "I won't play Germans because I'm so pure" are sanctimonious assholes.

General Paranoia wrote:

The biggest cunt wrote:It’s worth noting that a couple of Cunts posts are not from the same person.

Unimportant, they are all JJ/Bill...

This is true

Ditto Tango 2 3 wrote:
I'm really only making a big deal out of this here because Michael can't seem to understand the above responses here to you. I can communicate at the least on an average enough level that my point should be getting across as to why I think the "I won't play Germans because I'm so pure" are sanctimonious assholes.

You called out Ivan and claimed he said/thinks this!
Show me where on TWW he said this.

You are accusing someone of doing something, so back it up with evidence.

And people wonder why I play Warhammer instead.

Cunts wrote:And people wonder why I play Warhammer instead.

Nope. You are a cunt. Nothing to wonder about.

Michael wrote:Bob is the kind of person who gets invested emotionally in things, and for him on an emotional level, trying to make the Nazis win in a game would cause him emotional upset, kind of like he feels he would be validating their historical actions.
Bob on a personal level will not play the Nazis, for HIM he finds it upsetting.

You are talking like some Orwellian trying to convince someone you clearly look down upon. Here's the answer to your Jesus parable: Bob shouldn't be playing any period where there are nazis.

Bob however understands that not everyone is like him, he knows that whilst some people would get off on playing the Nazis, many others are quite capable of playing them and they feel no emotional investment in it.
He understands that whilst it would make him feel like a bad Nazi himself, that others can play the Nazis and not feel this kindred spirit with them.

Bob does not think he is morally superior to anyone who can play the Nazis.

By using terms like "get off" and "feel no emotional investment in it" you are bringing moral superiority and attaching judgment right into it, Michael and are just as insulting as the "Bobs" are.

What you should be writing in your condescending parable, is "Bob however understands that not everyone is like him and he has no problem with people playing those WWII games, but he prefers not to and instead likes [insert some war which does not have nasty overtones - hmmm, hard, isn't it?]"

Tim, you very much seem to be saying that people who can't or won't play the bad guys must therefore think you a cunt as you can/will/do.
But nowhere on TWW has anyone said this.

Oh my, the sweet pulsating and holy bleeding heart shining from the chest of Klingon Jesus is pumping purple piss here at my frustration that you cannot understand that refusing to play a particular side because of moral offence necessarily brings judgment down upon those of us who can play any side. See my comments on my answer to Bronshtein about playing sports and both of you apparently not understanding the perfectly valid sports analogy I've brought up like 40 million times - it's like banging my head against Roger Water's plastic bricks.

Especially Ivan who has even said he does play the Germans and has written loads of German supplements and stuff for those that do want to play them.
Why this insistence that Ivan is judging you and that he finds you somehow morally repugnant?

Because for all the reasons I've stated to you too many times already and for the reasons I just gave Bronshtein, Ivan is. So is the Japanese guy - mind you we have not played the Japanese on any side since 1989. When someone says he can only play "faceless Germans" in pick up games and not in campaigns and can only play Allies for "the liberation of Europe" he is judging people who play Germans. And I find that offensive. Once again, the sports analogy - which you seem to refuse to understand.

Michael wrote:

Ditto Tango 2 3 wrote:
I'm really only making a big deal out of this here because Michael can't seem to understand the above responses here to you. I can communicate at the least on an average enough level that my point should be getting across as to why I think the "I won't play Germans because I'm so pure" are sanctimonious assholes.

You called out Ivan and claimed he said/thinks this!
Show me where on TWW he said this.

You are accusing someone of doing something, so back it up with evidence.

I've already explained it. Stop being obtuse.