The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

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Re: The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

Post by Bronshtein » Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:26 am

I confess I don't mind if people think the clockwise ascending stair is a deliberate defensive measure.
I think it is one of those nice stories people made up to fit a particular narrative, but I ain't going to die in a ditch over it.
If I'd written a paper in my 20s saying it was all about the way Master James of St George liked to delineate elite space in his Welsh castles, and that was the basis of my career, I would. But I didn't, so I won't.

Having worked for a year on research in a stately home and had to put up with guides talking bollocks to the punters I am less inclined than Khusrau to smile on folklore, but I can see the appeal of two fingered salutes, defensive spiral stairs, knights stranded like turtles on their backs and gentle parfait knights. But it's all wrong.

On the plus side not many mediaeval commanders were as dumb as Oman painted them and there was a distinct operational art of war. Unfortunately for wargamers it didn't involve a lot of pitched battles.

It's nice to exchange views with Hermit and co and I am certainly not going to ask a moderator (as if!)to ban anyone because they think I am wrong/mad/revisionist/pinko/commie faggot etc. That may explain why I would never have made whatever rank Kev was in the USMC.

(Can't complain though - I just made a few quid selling some of his books :D ).

Re: The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

Post by Clonester » Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:49 pm

Picador wrote:
Cor, this is getting like TNP's Napoleonics board. I hope we don't invoke Kiley...


Only like tmp if some of you knuckleheads started claiming a staircase winding to the left was a deliberate Commie plot.
And if a delusional but all-powerful "moderator" weighed in to ban any Pinko using the lord's name in vain.

Re: The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

Post by Hermit » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:36 pm

Picador wrote:Cor, this is getting like TNP's Napoleonics board. I hope we don't invoke Kiley...


I don't think we've got to the point of TMP madness yet. A discussion of medieval battle and defensive theory would be way above their heads. As would any discussion.

Certainly in the Tower of London, they have both clockwise and anti-clockwise spiral staircases, but that place has been built and added to over the centuries, so it's difficult to say when one version or the other was decided on. Although, you can understand such a thought process when you consider the dominance of the church, who had the strange, age old idea that anyone left-handed was seen as the spawn of satan.

And who can blame them (I'm joking! It's a fucking joke. Fuck off :P )

But even such mad ideas as that can have an effect on the medieval mindset.

Re: The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

Post by Hew Johns » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:21 pm

Georgia on my mind...
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/georgia-high-school-unable-mandate-215300488.html

I particularly like the part about the width of a 3 x 5.

When you believe in things
That you don't understand
Then you suffer
Superstition ain't the way
No, no, no

Re: The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

Post by GarrisonMiniatures » Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:18 pm

If you are atacking a tower, then gather straw and wood, apply match or the equivalent... do the flames and smoke kill the defenders quickers if the spiral goes clockwise or anticlockwise? Because frankly, given the choice, I wouldn't be going up those stairs myself...

Re: The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

Post by frotherPest » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:11 pm

Ah, yes. If someone has breached your walls you may as well just lay down and die instead of building additional defensive measures, multiple layers of walls, keeps.

Re: The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

Post by Kevin Kiley » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:58 pm

Picador wrote:And as I said earlier, if the enemy is hacking their way up your stairs you're already fucked. The canny attacker would know about spiral staircases too. Consider the headroom and width of them, there ain't a lot of room for Errol Flynn type swashbuckling with full armour, longsword and heater shield :)

They're the simplest way to ascend/descend a circular tower. I think I may already have said that too.

Cor, this is getting like TNP's Napoleonics board. I hope we don't invoke Kiley...

Are the fibers on a bricole twisted clockwise or counter clockwise?

Re: The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

Post by Picador » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:22 am

And as I said earlier, if the enemy is hacking their way up your stairs you're already fucked. The canny attacker would know about spiral staircases too. Consider the headroom and width of them, there ain't a lot of room for Errol Flynn type swashbuckling with full armour, longsword and heater shield :)

They're the simplest way to ascend/descend a circular tower. I think I may already have said that too.

Cor, this is getting like TNP's Napoleonics board. I hope we don't invoke Kiley...

Re: The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

Post by Bronshtein » Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:29 am

Of course it was defensive architecture.
Yes most castle builders knew what they were doing and did most things for a reason.
Machicolations, crenellations, embrasures, murder holes were all there for reasons we know and understand.
But we don't know why some spiral staircases twisted one way and others another.
There is no evidence of a defensive purpose.
We may surmise and most eighteenth and nineteenth century antiquarians did, as they did about many other things they were wrong about.
Twentieth century schoolteachers and guides peddled the same theories without any evidence.
I had the same school lesson as you.
It doesn't mean mediaeval builders believed right handed swordsmen would be benefited in defence by clockwise spirals.
As I said earlier - in an escalade you have lost control of the battlement and will be trying to stop the enemy coming down the towers to prevent them opening the gates.
If you are defending against attacker from below you will have already lost control of the bailey and be in big trouble.

Re: The Sad Cunts with No Life Thread

Post by Hermit » Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:35 pm

They do know how to go fucking mental on TMP.

Bronshtein wrote:Except it's not true.
Is there any mediaeval evidence for the theory?
No.


It's defensive architecture. Castles were built for dominance and defence, so they'd consider all aspects of that when building them, even if main defences were breached. Some were very clever in the way they were laid out, giving defending troops maximum benefit.

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