State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Smilies
:D :) :( :o :shock: :? 8) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :wink: :froth: :loopy: :| :mrgreen: :demonic: 0:) 0;) :argue: :wry:
View more smilies
BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON
Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post by Condottiero » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:06 am

Pretty much wrote:It is amazing isn't it? Just completely incoherent babbling. I'd say stream of consciousness but it's not even that. Sentences don't connect to each other. Drifts off mid-sentence.

I suppose the advantage in the debates is that his voters are basically just voting because they hate black people, so he doesn't need to say anything.

The method to the madness...

Donald Trump’s unique speaking style, explained by linguists...

During the campaign, I was curious if professional linguists and historians could help us figure out what makes Trump’s speaking style unique. There were lots of disagreements on this front, but one thing stood out: Trump’s speeches aren’t meant to be read or used for sound bites, which is probably why Trump is so frustrated with how he comes off in the media.

Rather, his seeming incoherence stems from the big difference between written and spoken language. Trump’s style of speaking has its roots in oral culture. He rallies people through impassioned, targeted conversation — even if it doesn’t always follow a clear arc.


Why Trump’s speeches are incomprehensible to some — and make perfect sense to others

Only a few of Trump’s big speeches have been scripted. At many of his rallies, he speaks off the cuff. We get a lot of fractured, unfinished sentences, moving quickly from thought to thought — what Trump calls a “beautiful flowing sentence.”

"His speeches are full of non sequiturs," says Kristin Kobes Du Mez, a Calvin College historian who did a comparative study of Trump and Clinton’s speaking styles. It’s a completely different style from nearly any other politician you normally hear.

To some, this style is completely incoherent. But clearly not everyone feels this way. Many others have walked away from Trump’s rallies having understood — and believed — what he said.

The difference can be observed in reading Trump’s remarks versus listening to them in real time, University of Pennsylvania linguist Mark Liberman explained:

This apparent incoherence has two main causes: false starts and parentheticals. Both are effectively signaled in speaking — by prosody along with gesture, posture, and gaze — and therefore largely factored out by listeners. But in textual form the cues are gone, and we lose the thread.

In other words, Trump’s digressions and rambles — or, as he says, when “the back of the sentence reverts to the front” — are much easier to follow in person thanks to subtle cues.

His style of speaking is conversational, and may even stem from his New York City upbringing. As George Lakoff, a linguist at UC Berkeley, told me, "[The] thing about being a New Yorker is it is polite if you finish their sentences for them. It’s a natural part of conversation."

This may be why Trump’s sentences often seem, in transcript form, to trail off with no ending. "He knows his audience can finish his sentences for him," Lakoff says.

Watching Trump, it’s easy to see how this plays out. He makes vague implications with a raised eyebrow or a shrug, allowing his audience to reach their own conclusions. And that conversational style can be effective. It’s more intimate than a scripted speech. People walk away from Trump feeling as though he were casually talking to them, allowing them to finish his thoughts.

Yet to many linguists, Trump stands out for how often he deploys these conversational tics. "Trump's frequency of divergence is unusual," Liberman says. In other words, he goes off topic way more often than the average person in conversation.

Geoffrey Pullum, a linguist at the University of Edinburgh, argues that there’s more going on than just a conversational, I’ll-let-you-fill-in-the-gaps style. Trump’s unorganized sentences and short snippets might suggest something about how his mind works. "His speech suggests a man with scattered thoughts, a short span of attention, and a lack of intellectual discipline and analytical skills," Pullum says.

More sophisticated thinkers and speakers (including many past presidents), Pullum argues, are able to use "hypotaxis — that is, embedding of clauses within clauses." Trump can’t seem to do that.

Pullum explains further: "When you say something like, 'While Congress shows no interest in doing X, I feel that the American people believe it is essential,' the clause ‘it is essential’ is inside the clause ‘the American people believe it is essential’ which is inside the clause ‘I feel that the American people believe it is essential,’ and so on. You get no such organized thoughts from Trump. It's bursts of noun phrases, self-interruptions, sudden departures from the theme, flashes of memory, odd side remarks. … It's the disordered language of a person with a concentration problem."

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post by kyotebue2 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:52 am

The Russians are helping BernieBots, Bernie has asked them to stop. Yes, I know.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post by Hermit » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:52 pm

He hasn't got the patience to watch any movie. His level are the Rambo films, and he fasts forwards to all the "best bits" in them.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post by Jakar Nilson » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:27 pm

Guest wrote:
Jakar Nilson wrote:There has got to be some irony in the fact that Trump wants a movie about the fall of a racist, oligarchical society (that is constantly criticized by its protagonists) as the winner of this year's Academy Awards.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/trump-parasite-criticism-1.5458201

Why doesn't he act like previous presidents and spend his free time watching movies rather than going on tweet marathons?

And speaking of Hollywood and politicians, I went to a local cinema that specializes in independent movies, and saw Taxi Driver for the first time (yuck it up). While there was certainly much in the movie itself to analyze, I thought it weird that we're supposed to get the idea that Senator Palantine is a faker, especially when compared to the politicians of today. But it also sheds a different light on De Niro's comments toward Trump.

What would Trump be saying if the Irishman had won, and DeNiro gave the acceptance speech?

He probably would have complained about it being too long, even though he probably hasn't bothered to watch it.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post by Voice From Limbo » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:22 pm

"Bring back Birth of a Nation!"

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post by Guest » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:19 pm

Jakar Nilson wrote:There has got to be some irony in the fact that Trump wants a movie about the fall of a racist, oligarchical society (that is constantly criticized by its protagonists) as the winner of this year's Academy Awards.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/trump-parasite-criticism-1.5458201

Why doesn't he act like previous presidents and spend his free time watching movies rather than going on tweet marathons?

And speaking of Hollywood and politicians, I went to a local cinema that specializes in independent movies, and saw Taxi Driver for the first time (yuck it up). While there was certainly much in the movie itself to analyze, I thought it weird that we're supposed to get the idea that Senator Palantine is a faker, especially when compared to the politicians of today. But it also sheds a different light on De Niro's comments toward Trump.

What would Trump be saying if the Irishman had won, and DeNiro gave the acceptance speech?

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post by Voice From Limbo » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:47 pm

Trump statements on any given subject are fairly easy to predict. Just ask yourself: "What would a bigoted, narcissistic moron say?", and go from there.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post by ACAb 40% » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:36 pm

A man who adores police violence and brags about feeling up underage girls being triggered by a movie made by one of our allies is the most 2020 moment yet.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post by Jakar Nilson » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:49 pm

There has got to be some irony in the fact that Trump wants a movie about the fall of a racist, oligarchical society (that is constantly criticized by its protagonists) as the winner of this year's Academy Awards.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/trump-parasite-criticism-1.5458201

Why doesn't he act like previous presidents and spend his free time watching movies rather than going on tweet marathons?

And speaking of Hollywood and politicians, I went to a local cinema that specializes in independent movies, and saw Taxi Driver for the first time (yuck it up). While there was certainly much in the movie itself to analyze, I thought it weird that we're supposed to get the idea that Senator Palantine is a faker, especially when compared to the politicians of today. But it also sheds a different light on De Niro's comments toward Trump.

Re: State of the Union - pre/post election & whatever...

Post by kyotebue2 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:03 pm

Pretty much.

Top