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[quote="webmaster"]Earlier today Frothers Unite took an unprecedented step, in response to an unprecedented situation. Our web host - Host Europe - contacted us with regard to a complaint from a party claiming to represent Urban Mammoth: [quote]Dear *****, As per our conversation we have received a complaint with reference to your website hosted with us under the domain name FROTHERSUNITE.COM. The complaint refers to the chain of communications in relation to ;http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2054 under I-Kore & Urban Mammoth. The complainant has held this material to be defamatory to both them, their company and other individuals and is currently considering legal action to address this if we are not able to assist them with there enquiries. In order to ensure the legitimacy of any complaints that we receive in relation to our customers websites, we would not remove material in relation to a complaint unless we received a notification from the Courts or police or a legal letter of intent from a solicitor. The action then taken is in order to minimise any liability of Host Europe. We have these procedures in place to protect the interests of our customers and hopefully with your assistance we can address this complaint. In light of the seriousness of this complaint your assistance and response at your earliest convenience would be appreciated. Kind Regards, ******** Host Europe Customer Service Team[/quote] We subsequently heard from several prominent forum members who reported receiving 'unpleasant' communications regarding the topic, quite possibly from the same party. In our FAQ we ask that questions about abusive and/or legal matters related to this board be first directed to “the administrator of this board". Unfortunately, the complainant made no direct representation to the FU:UK Committee, and made no mention of which issues were specifically judged to be defamatory. Of course, we recognise that no complainant has an obligation to do this, and in response we have examined the thread in question and removed commentary which we considered to include some basis for legal action against our hosts. We hope that this resolves the complainant’s problems and obviates any threat against our hosting service (or members). Frothers Unite! UK is a site with a prides itself on its independence, and on the culture of free expression we have created in our discussion forums. As a matter of policy we will not seek to curtail the right of our readership to raise questions about the industry, nor will we be prevented from reporting industry issues that concern our readership. We also welcome statements on behalf of industry bodies which clarify these issues. That said we take our position as responsible netizens seriously, and certainly have no wish to become a vehicle for various parties to pursue grievances against each other. [quote]While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable. You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws.[...]You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit. [/quote] We hope that our subscribers (and anonymous posters) can accept the reasons for this decision, which was not taken lightly and does not form a precedent for a change in the site's fundamental values. That said, we would very much appreciate it if you could be [u]very careful what you say[/u] on certain 'sensitive topics'. :dodgy: No matter how tempted you are. :|[/quote]
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Topic review
Author
Message
Motorway
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject:
Quote:
It doesn't work like that though if someone unconnected with business x just buys the intellectual properties and stock/equipment of it then just happens to hire the previous staff to run business y.
It's more complicated: generally speaking if company y (it only works for companies, not private persons) takes over the assets of company x, the staff of x and the directors of x, then y is seen as a successor of x and only the employees have the right to claim at y for the period of a year. (EU regulation March 5th 1977, L61/26)
Exception: if x goes bankrupt.
The sad part: normal creditors of x get nothing and probably the bank of x will go after the directors of x.
Quote:
Also Limited Companies debts don't fall on the individuals involved I don't believe?
Normally no, but there are some very...very nasty exceptions.
The Masked Frother
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 2:07 pm Post subject:
[quote="Artemis Black"]
2468Motorway wrote:
TAlso Limited Companies debts don't fall on the individuals involved I don't believe?
That is the whole point of incorporating. To limit your liabilities.
The article I read mentioned that a major union was taking an interest in stopping the abuse, mainly because it's members were being affected.
Artemis Black
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject:
2468Motorway wrote:
The point is, is it "abuse". I won't get too technical about it but this is how it works:
The general public sees a company X go bust/bankrupt and next sees company Y doing the same thing.
If company X has a lot of staff and this staff starts to work at Y this is probably the only way to save employment or employment benefits as under EU law (which also is applicable in the UK) bankruptcy is the only exception to the rule that when entity Y follows entity X after buying the assets of X, the obligations of X go to Y.
This does not mean that the individual directors of X can't be held responsible for the losses and debts of X.
It doesn't work like that though if someone unconnected with business x just buys the intellectual properties and stock/equipment of it then just happens to hire the previous staff to run business y.
No debts follow you in those circumstances? Also Limited Companies debts don't fall on the individuals involved I don't believe?
Motorway
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject:
The point is, is it "abuse". I won't get too technical about it but this is how it works:
The general public sees a company X go bust/bankrupt and next sees company Y doing the same thing.
If company X has a lot of staff and this staff starts to work at Y this is probably the only way to save employment or employment benefits as under EU law (which also is applicable in the UK) bankruptcy is the only exception to the rule that when entity Y follows entity X after buying the assets of X, the obligations of X go to Y.
This does not mean that the individual directors of X can't be held responsible for the losses and debts of X.
The Masked Frother
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject:
2468Motorway wrote:
Quote:
Phoenix companies go bust, and then get their assest bought up by third parties from a liquidator, and continue to trade with the existing company model. This is a way of doing business that basically creates a 'loophole' in the legal system to get out of paying it's creditors
Not quite true, but it is a legit way under EU-law to get rid of staff.
There has been press lately about how steps are being taken to "correct" the abuses. IIRC, the article said the practices of manufacturing companies were being investigated. It was either in the Economist last week (or a week ago), or in one of the professional mags such as PE or JOM.
Artemis Black
Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject:
The White Knight wrote:
Artemis Black wrote:
Ok, that's a lie. I'd sell my kidney to saddam hussein for the right money.
I'll trade you one foundry figure and three randomly selected unrelated bits of ramage for it.
That's probably about £700 worth of stuff.
(I found a full squad of painted Valhallans, will keep looking)
White Knight
Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject:
Artemis Black wrote:
Ok, that's a lie. I'd sell my kidney to saddam hussein for the right money.
I'll trade you one foundry figure and three randomly selected unrelated bits of ramage for it.
Artemis Black
Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject:
2468Motorway wrote:
This isn't doing the both of you any good. More groveling please.
You should be begging one of us to send you these quality works of art! We don't just give them to any old bugger.
Ok, that's a lie. I'd sell my kidney to saddam hussein for the right money.
Motorway
Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 5:30 pm Post subject:
This isn't doing the both of you any good. More groveling please.
Artemis Black
Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject:
Hasslefriesian wrote:
Oh, and Mr Motorway, you can buy my toys from whomever you please. If you buy direct I get more money, but if you buy from Artemis
(please note: Legal disclaimer, other retailers are also available)
you get to help him to stay in business.
How come I get a 'dungeon' and you get a 'family business? Do people just naturally assume I have no family?
I need to work on my public image!
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