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[quote="Bodhi"]Personally I feel that the conservative tastes of a great portion of the customers - meaning that they will only buy things that are more or less a copy of a preexisting style - is a much bigger issue and problem than IP theft. IP theft is simply boring but boring tastes make some people feel forced to do these boring things. As is often the case in most parts of life - in my opinion - nostalgia is the great crook here. I'm trying to wage war against nostalgia on all fronts. Just my little mission in life :P :wink:[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class=" name"><a name=""></a><b>Duff</b></td> <td class="" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%" class="postdetails"><img src="templates/Frothers/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" />Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="postbody"></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Snowcat wrote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody"></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">Just keeping it within the realms of fantasy, read any page from any book by Wolfe, Peake, Holdstock or Robert Harrison and compare it to anything from LotR. The difference in quality is staggering. </span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Having read most of Wolfe's Book Of The New Sun series, and Peake's Gormenghast, I have this to say: the difference in *tedium* at least is not staggering. <img src="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /></span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br /> <img src="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Very Happy" border="0" /> Not sure I agree but I see your point. <br /> <br /></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Snowcat wrote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody"> <br /></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody"> <br />Soldier in the Mist by Gene Wolfe </span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br /> <br />That's the one where the main character has no memory from one day to the next isn't it?</span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Yep, plus the follow up Soldier of Atrete. Wolfe is releasing the 3rd Latro novel later this year apprently. <br /> <br />Roy</td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="../../../phpBB2/templates/Frothers/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class=" name"><a name=""></a><b>Patules</b></td> <td class="" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%" class="postdetails"><img src="templates/Frothers/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" />Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="postbody"></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">And did I mention Wagner with respect to size of the works? No, I didn't. And the size of an opera is mentioned in pages? (The libretto's aren't that big)</span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />No, you certainly didn't. And neither did I. <br /> <br /></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">Want a short fantasy work with depth? <br />Lord of Light by Zelazny? Soldier in the Mist by Gene Wolfe? Both very innovative, and well written.</span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I don't doubt that.</td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="../../../phpBB2/templates/Frothers/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class=" name"><a name=""></a><b>Snowcat</b></td> <td class="" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%" class="postdetails"><img src="templates/Frothers/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" />Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="postbody"></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">Soldier in the Mist by Gene Wolfe</span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />That's the one where the main character has no memory from one day to the next isn't it?</td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="../../../phpBB2/templates/Frothers/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class=" name"><a name=""></a><b>Motorway</b></td> <td class="" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%" class="postdetails"><img src="templates/Frothers/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" />Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:11 am Post subject: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="postbody"></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Patules wrote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody"></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">Sure: Jack Vance's fantasy and SF universes, Zelazny's Fantasy universes, and what about Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique indeed? Beats JRR in many ways. </span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />What about Zothique indeed! Mmmm, for some reason, you felt the need to erase "CAS's various cycles" out of my quote. <br /> <br /></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">Is the size of a tedious work of a kid's fairy tale a sign of depth?</span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />No. 'Rings is what, a little over a thousand pages? Great attempt at putting up a convincing argument though. And that emoticon just adds that extra sting to it~! <br /> <br /></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">Just keeping it within the realms of fantasy, read any page from any book by Wolfe, Peake, Holdstock or Robert Harrison and compare it to anything from LotR. The difference in quality is staggering.</span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />0K.</span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />In my initial spontaneous reaction I failed to see you already mentioned CAS, I tried to edit it my reaction but the board didn't swallow that. Happy now? <br /> <br />And did I mention Wagner with respect to size of the works? No, I didn't. And the size of an opera is mentioned in <span style="font-style: italic">pages</span>? (The libretto's aren't that big) <br /> <br />Want a short fantasy work with depth? <br />Lord of Light by Zelazny? Soldier in the Mist by Gene Wolfe? Both very innovative, and well written.</td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="../../../phpBB2/templates/Frothers/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class=" name"><a name=""></a><b>area23</b></td> <td class="" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%" class="postdetails"><img src="templates/Frothers/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" />Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="postbody"></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Marquis wrote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">I just think it was funny to cite the Socialist Review on ANYTHING, let alone literary value. <img src="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Very Happy" border="0" /></span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <img src="images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" alt="Laughing" border="0" /> <img src="images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" alt="Laughing" border="0" /> <br />Indeed. And in fact, when you google 'Tolkien' and 'socialist' you'll find they rehash the same arguments every ten years or so. I believe they had a similar review published in the sixties. <br /> <br />Still some of the boy named China's arguments are quite valid. <br /> <br />Moorcock's text is a bit pretentious, comparing Starship Troopers with Mein Kampf is a bit exaggerated. <br />But all rather entertaining. It must have been written in the early eighties. <br />But I like Moorcock.</td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="../../../phpBB2/templates/Frothers/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class=" name"><a name=""></a><b>Snowcat</b></td> <td class="" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%" class="postdetails"><img src="templates/Frothers/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" />Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="postbody"></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">Just keeping it within the realms of fantasy, read any page from any book by Wolfe, Peake, Holdstock or Robert Harrison and compare it to anything from LotR. The difference in quality is staggering. </span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Having read most of Wolfe's Book Of The New Sun series, and Peake's Gormenghast, I have this to say: the difference in *tedium* at least is not staggering. <img src="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="../../../phpBB2/templates/Frothers/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class=" name"><a name=""></a><b>Patules</b></td> <td class="" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%" class="postdetails"><img src="templates/Frothers/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" />Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="postbody"></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">Sure: Jack Vance's fantasy and SF universes, Zelazny's Fantasy universes, and what about Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique indeed? Beats JRR in many ways. </span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />What about Zothique indeed! Mmmm, for some reason, you felt the need to erase "CAS's various cycles" out of my quote. <br /> <br /></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">Is the size of a tedious work of a kid's fairy tale a sign of depth?</span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />No. 'Rings is what, a little over a thousand pages? Great attempt at putting up a convincing argument though. And that emoticon just adds that extra sting to it~! <br /> <br /></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">Just keeping it within the realms of fantasy, read any page from any book by Wolfe, Peake, Holdstock or Robert Harrison and compare it to anything from LotR. The difference in quality is staggering.</span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />0K.</td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="../../../phpBB2/templates/Frothers/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class=" name"><a name=""></a><b>Duff</b></td> <td class="" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%" class="postdetails"><img src="templates/Frothers/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" />Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="postbody"></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>Patules wrote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody"> <br />Ugh. "Tolkein" created his worlds, mythology and history with words. If his writing is such piss-poor drivel, how can the worlds, mythology and history he created with this writing still be considered great? <br /></span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Does a statement this fucking stupid even need an answer? May as well. The ability to envisage a fantasy world, populate it and give it a history does not mean you are a literary genius, just that you have the ability to write. To create prose of depth, that says something about the human condition, that is a joy to read just for the sake of reading it, that is what makes literary genius. Something Tolkein was totally incapable of doing. <br /> <br />Just keeping it within the realms of fantasy, read any page from any book by Wolfe, Peake, Holdstock or Robert Harrison and compare it to anything from LotR. The difference in quality is staggering. <br /> <br /> <br /></span> <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"> <tr> <td class="genmed"><b>JRR wrote:</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"><span class="postbody">At least I knew how to spell "idyll".</span></td> </tr> </table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br /> <img src="images/smiles/icon_redface.gif" alt="Embarassed" border="0" /> <br /> <br />Roy</td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="../../../phpBB2/templates/Frothers/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class=" name"><a name=""></a><b>Jakar Nilson</b></td> <td class="" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%" class="postdetails"><img src="templates/Frothers/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" />Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="postbody">I take it most people have not actually read books where the protagonist just sits for the entirety of the work? Take Roch Carrier's "Il n'y a pas de pays sans grand-père", which I read in High School. I figured since he had written "the Hockey Sweater" that it must be good. It wasn't. It's about a senile old man who stays in a rocking chair on a porch thinking about the same four things throughout the book (including his idiotic seperatist grandson), and finaly goes psycho on a bus driver at the end. Utter tripe. <br /> <br />Tolkien flows compared to that. The biggest stumbling block is book I of LoTR. Once you're out of the Shire, everything is in high gear.</td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="../../../phpBB2/templates/Frothers/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class=" name"><a name=""></a><b>Ernest Errol Quinch</b></td> <td class="" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%" class="postdetails"><img src="templates/Frothers/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" />Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="postbody">The Hobbit is a great book but the LOTR is utter shite. One of 3 books I have prefered to throw at a wall rather than continue reading. <br /> <br />Lotr is long winded actionless pap of the highest order. He could of cut several hundred pages out and had a good read insted of the tower of wankfest he ended up with.</td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="../../../phpBB2/templates/Frothers/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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